Jon Noyes talks with people gathered around signs calling for “liberty” and “justice,” asking what those words mean and where they find their moral authority.
Transcript
Jon (commentary): In this short but impactful conversation, I ask a simple question: “What do you mean by justice?” The woman that I’m speaking to—she’s carrying a sign that is about justice. And it might sound like a basic question, but that’s the point. When we’re surrounded by signs and slogans calling for liberty and justice, we need to pause and ask, “What do you mean by these words? What do these words actually mean?”
Jon: I see tons of people here are passionate about justice, which is a good thing, right? I love seeing this. It’s so cool that we can gather and do this. And it’s great heart, right? Great heart. We all want justice and liberty. But what’s our standard of justice?
Protestor 1: Our standard of justice should be blind to politics. We should be doing the right thing before we send an innocent immigrant to CECOT.
Jon: So, who says what’s right and wrong, like, what’s just or unjust?
Protestor 1: The Constitution. The Constitution gives us the right to a fair trial.
Jon: Okay. So, it’s firmly established in the Constitution—and not necessarily our interpretation of the Constitution, but the letter of the Constitution.
Protestor 1: Correct.
And so, the Founders, they appealed to a law outside of themselves, right?
Protestor 1: They did. They had a lot of people.
Jon: Yeah. They really did. Yeah. So, I would say that justice comes from our understanding of—it’s not subjective, just what we think. It’s outside of ourselves.
Jon (commentary): So, the woman that I’m speaking with, she responds with a common answer: Justice is what’s in the Constitution. And I think that that’s a decent start, but it raises a deeper question: Why should we trust the Constitution? On what authority? By what authority? And that opens the door for a bigger truth. The Founders didn’t create justice. They appealed to it. As the Declaration says, they recognize “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God.” That’s natural law—objective morality grounded in something outside of ourselves. And when I bring that up, the tone shifts. Notice that. The tone shifts. Someone nearby tries to shut the conversation down. But I don’t push back or escalate. I just stay kind and clear. The goal, it’s not to win an argument. It’s to plant seeds, to put a stone in somebody’s shoe.
Protestor 1: They’re gonna do due diligence before they’re sending people—
Protestor 2: I was raised in the church, so I can tell when it’s coming.
Jon: No, I’m not trying to preach. I’m trying to ask questions, though. No, I’m not.
Protestor 2: I know what’s happening right now. I’ve been on the other side of it.
Jon: What’s happening?
Protestor 2: The questions that you’re asking.
Protestor 1: People are getting taken that had legal status.
Protestor 2: I don’t think that he has our best interest at heart. We’re going to disengage.
Jon: What would that be? Like, I don’t know why you’d say that. I’m just trying to have conversations with people about issues that matter.
Protestor 2: We’re all here for a reason, and those of us who know why we’re here already know. So, if you don’t know why you’re here—
Jon: I’m here to talk to people like you that maybe have a different opinion than I do.
Protestor 2: So, I think that we say what we say what we say.
Jon: Justice, liberty, and justice for all. Okay.
Protestor 2: You have questions about that, you can go do your own research.
Jon: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate your time. Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.
Jon (commentary): So, here’s your tactic. When people use moral words like justice or equality, don’t assume they mean what you think they mean or what you would mean. Ask, “What do you mean by that?” And be ready to gently guide them or point them to the true source of justice, the God who made us all.
Before we can fight for justice, we have to define it, and real justice starts with a law higher than our own.