Greg and Amy argue that a long history of God’s dealings with humanity and the transformed lives of faithful followers show a consistent pattern of God’s genuine love and restoration that can’t be reconciled with the notion of a deceptive deity.
Transcript
Amy: Let’s go on to a question from Nora. What do I say when my brother thinks it’s possible for God to lie, that he treats us like his playthings, and that Jesus’ coming might have been some elaborate scheme to make us think he loves us?
Greg: Well, I have reams and reams of notes about all kinds of things, and I was just going through them the other day. I mean, hundreds of pages of stuff that I just throw in there that I don’t want to lose, though I probably will never read again. But I did read them recently because I was isolating all of the things that had to do with God speaking to us and “does God whisper?” for the sake of the book that I hope I write this next year. And I came across a line about possibilities. And the line was something to the effect of—something like, yes, lots of things are possible, but possibilities are cheap. It may not be a very clever aphorism. I think I wrote it out a little bit better. But the point was, possibilities are cheap. In other words, you can just come up with them left and right and toss them out. But possibilities are not the same as plausibilities or probabilities—certainly not actualities. Notice how there’s a whole string of things. You have actual, you have probable, you have plausible, you have possible. “Possible” is the lowest one on the ladder. Almost anything you can imagine is going to be possible because the only way to disqualify a possibility is to show that it’s somehow incoherent. You know? Anything is possible, but that doesn’t get you anywhere.
So, one could say with regards to Nora’s brother who challenged her, “I guess anything’s possible. But why would you think that’s what actually happened? Why would you think that’s plausible, and if plausible, probable?” That’s what we’re working with here. And those are the questions that matter, not what’s possible.
I think J. Warner Wallace is the one who says it doesn’t matter what’s possible. He’s talking to a jury. Yeah, all these things are possible. It doesn’t matter what’s possible. What matters is what’s reasonable, and what is reasonable is determined by the evidence that you have at hand pertaining to the issue. So, I—in a certain sense, it isn’t like I have a clever comeback on this one.
I remember a long time ago—30 years ago—I was with a friend who was questioning Christianity, offering a challenge to J.P. Moreland, and she raised this issue. “Isn’t it possible?” she said. Blah, blah, blah. And here’s what his response was. He said, just because it’s possible does not mean it’s reasonable to think it happened. Just because it’s possible does not mean it’s reasonable to think it happened. We don’t live our lives based on what’s possible. We live our lives based on what’s actual, and we determine what’s actual by looking at the alternatives and, to some degree, assess plausibility, and ultimately probabilities. Do we have a good reason to believe this is the way it is? And if we don’t, then there’s no reason we should think that’s what actually took place, even if it is possible.
Amy: And I’m not even sure I could grant that it’s possible, because if God can lie, then God’s not good. So, where is the standard of goodness coming from exactly? Now, you’ve got a bigger problem because there’s no standard. So, I’m not even sure it’s even possible. If you have a self-existent being who’s perfectly good and acting as the standard, he’s not going to lie. And if he lies, then there is no such thing as truth anymore because there’s no such thing as a standard.
Greg: Well, there’s no such thing as moral good.
Amy: There’s no such thing as moral good. Yeah. He’s the Creator who is the standard for moral goodness.
Greg: But there is such thing as moral good, and the problem of evil is the best proof of that. And therefore, there must be the standard. Therefore, there must be God. So, this is the moral argument for God, kind of, being employed against this objection.
Amy: So, I’m not even sure I would concede with him that it’s even possible. But secondly, it looks he’s not just saying, “Oh, there’s a there’s a god who….” He seems to be talking in terms of the Christian God. So, I’m just going to keep it there because it’s not really clear if he’s saying some other kind of being created the whole Christian thing. And I don’t know.
So, here’s the question. You know. It says Jesus’ coming might have been some elaborate scheme to make us think he loves us. Then my question is, well, that seems like an awful lot to go through to trick people into experiencing peace and reconciliation with God. Why exactly would he do this? If his goal is only to trick us, why would he do it that way, where he comes and he suffers and he dies and he heals and he does all these good things and he demonstrates his character? Why, exactly? I don’t even understand what the goal would be here. So, at the end of time he can say, “Ha, gotcha”? It’s just so crazy.
Look, we have thousands of years of history of what God has done. There is no reason to think that he is just playing around. Just read through the Bible. I guess that’s my ultimate thing. You can see the whole history of what he’s done. And this is just a foolish thing.
Greg: And it’s also the history of what followers of Jesus have done for thousands of years since then. And I’m making the distinction between followers of Jesus who do what Jesus says to do and those who claim to be Christians who do not live like Christ wanted them to live. Okay? Just a distinction there.
Now the blessed hope of the church is the second coming of Christ. Characteristically, that’s the way it’s described. But I’ll tell you what—for me, that’s not my blessed hope. I don’t know for you, but subjectively for me, what makes me feel great is that I’m going to him, not that he’s coming to me. That I am forgiven. Okay? And this brings me back to that psalm that says, “Lord, if you would mark iniquity, oh Lord, who could stand?” That’s not a good sign, right? Who could stand? If you’re keeping track in the sense that this is what I’ll be assessed by, nobody’s going to make it. “But there is forgiveness in you that you will be praised.” And there’s so much comfort in that fact for me. Not that Jesus is coming back again. That’s great. But I don’t plan to be here when he does. I mean, I don’t think I will be. It has nothing to do with my plans. But what matters to me is my going to him and being with him wherever he ends up coming or going or whatever. I’m safe in him. “Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God and we exalt in the hope of the glory of God.”
Amy: And it just doesn’t make any sense that God would trick us into feeling that peace, experiencing that peace and forgiveness, and trick us into doing good for others and building up all of these things that have helped humanity. It’s just, none of that makes sense.